Scott's Question:
If I am out floating around in the ocean doing a bit of fishing is there going to be any markers or boys so I can know I am actually in a marine park zone or getting close to one?

Neville's Answer:
Yes, Scott, it is going to be a little more difficult out on the water of course, but there are some extensive Marine notes which provide background information to people who are fishing or enjoying our marine environment. They are accompanied with the marine notes as detailed maps that show the location of the markers so in some cases there will be markers on shore and they will often line up so from out on the water you can see. There will be a couple of markers lined up. But they will be certainly aid a person who is on shore and then you have got your coordinates. Also they are listed on that map readily available and if you haven't go the printed material you can down load these from the net and have those available in the boat to input into your GPS unit for example.

Scott's Question:
Ok, and for people who don't have the internet can they pick that up from an DNRE Office?

Neville's Answer:
This is not only a DNRE project or a implementation of Marine National Parks it's a Parks Victoria the lead agency in managing the introduction but Fisheries Victoria have key responsibility of course in insuring that people who are fishing are doing the right thing in the vicinity.

Scott's Question:
With the Marine Parks when they were talking about legislation before anything had been done there was a lot of speculation that down around the Grammar School Lagoon was going to be part of a Marine Park do you know or heard anything about it?

Neville's Answer:
This may have been one of the areas was under investigation by the ECC, who were in charge of the responsibility of doing a Marine and Coastal investigation. But nothing came of that, it was either considered to be too small an area be represented or maybe not representative of the particular bio regions that were sort, particular habitats and Eco systems that were important to be protected. It's a lovely little area.

Scott's Comment:
Great area for fishing too.

Neville's Answer cont'd:
There is a group of fisherman that wants to put a case for that to be included in the next round of the National parks or Marine Sanctuaries.

Scott's Comment:
Somehow I doubt that.

Geoff Wilson's Comment:
I can give you some insight to the Grammar School Lagoon, in 1997 there was some investigations done about the native grasses there and it looked as though it might be worth while putting in a management plan for the land sight of Limeburners Bay. There was an advisory committee formed and gradually it was expanded to guidelines. The lagoon or the area was to include the whole of the lagoon but both the water and the land and consultants were actually bought in and the principals of this management plan for DRNE, the consultants Thompson and Beryl and Geelong City Council and there was this plan to put in buffer zones 200 meters out from the shore of the lagoon to stop the people disturbing the Wading birds. Well there were a lot of Wading birds up the lagoon, there is not a lot of bird life there really except for seagulls, a few pelicans, a few swans and things like that. But the worse thing of all they wanted to keep people off Point Abeona and the reason for that was that there was a potential nesting site for Ferry Turns. Well they have all these reports saying Ferry Turns nested there. The source was our very knowledgeable nature man who writes for The Geelong Advertiser for the past 30 odd years Trevor Pesgot and when I asked Trevor about the Ferry turns, he said well no there is nothing definite to say there was every Ferry Turns nesting there. And that sort of shot the whole thing down but it took a lot of work to actually divert that head long rush into making that a closed area for fisherman. It would have gone further I think too but I think the whole Limeburners Bay or Grammar School Lagoon Management Plan has fallen by the waste side now because that thrust was diverted.

John's Comment:
Just quickly they did a fair few things didn't they Geoff, they sprayed for mosquitoes up in the mangroves on the other side trying to protect the moth that was living in there.

Geoff's Comment:
The Toda Skipper Butterfly which no one had seen for about 20 years. Yes and there was a mob going around spraying with a great big tank spraying what was a very disturbing situation? Because you don't know what they are spraying and you have run off and that's into a very small tidal lagoon and I just sometimes wonder about the wisdom of some of these things.

John's Comment:
I am against Marine Parks because of what it does to my fishing but obviously a lot must go into planning a Marine National Park.

Neville's Comment:
There is a huge investigation, let's not loose site of the fact there was a 10 years process of not only an investigation but debate and discussion by all interested parties and I have got no doubt that there has been adequate consultation that's gone on. Sure people have protested but at the end of the day the community has determined that we would like to have set of Marine National Parks that truly representative of the bio regions that are so important to protect representatives of.

Scott's Comment:
That is something that needed to happen in one shape or form eventually just to protect what we do actually have out there before it is all gone.

Neville's Comment:
Sure, the government made the decision to exclude from the Marine National Parks and Marine Sanctuaries those very popular recreational fishing areas and popular or necessary commercial fishing areas. So, it's locking up 5.3% of the states Marine Resources but if we look at it in prospective that's not a huge commitment and it's going to do so much to protect those habitats and eco systems.

Caller (Terry's) Question:
I was just wondering whether there will be still parts of Swan Bay that you will be able to fish when this Marine Parks come in?

Neville's Answer:
Yes, there will be Terry, and as I explained to Scott earlier there is comprehensive set of Marine notes available both in printed form and on the web. And there is a very detailed map there that shows for example Lakers Cutting area is excluded from the boundary of the Marine National Park. That part of Port Phillip Heads section and there is a 300 meter Channel or exclusion area that runs the course of the Channel through Swan Bay.

Caller (Terry's) Question:
And will you still be able to fish off the pier, will you?

Neville's Answer:
Yes, there are no piers, jetties or boat ramps that are actually included or contained within any Marine National Park or Marine Sanctuary.

Caller (Terry's) Question:
Oh, that's all right then.

Neville's Answer Cont'd:
But look Swan Bay I think we will all appreciate and Geoff will certainly back me up on this it's such a valuable area it has been an important place for people to fish. But it is such an important nursery for juvenile King George Whiting in particular and a whole range of other species the Flatheads, and Gummy Sharks for example. So whilst their targeted by recreational fishers it's a quiet unique area and I think it's very important that we have gone down the path of protecting that.

Scott's Question:
Something too you might be able to answer for me Neville you were saying that the piers and jetties aren't excluded their, not included in the Marine Parks does that include if people are fishing off the beach?

Neville's Answer:
No, I didn't mention the beach. It has been determined that well as I say the maps showing quiet clearly the boundaries of the parks. Show also quiet clearly those sections of beach where you are still permitted to fish and so a couple of the Marine National Parks still have provision for some beach access to the fishing. Pt Lonsdale section and the Port Phillip Marine National Park for example and also Discovery Bay. There are a couple of beach areas excluded from within the Marine National Parks.

Scott's Comment:
So people really need to do their homework and just check it out before they head down there.

Neville's Comment:
Absolutely.

Caller (Peter's) Question:
I was wondering whether the sub marine a near area around Swan Bay will be band?

Neville's Answer:
Good morning Peter, look I don't think so, I think that fall outside the boundary. Yes that is not within the proposed in the Marine National Park area.

Caller (Peter's) Question:
Exactly where is?

Neville's Answer:
Well as I have said a couple of times there is detailed information and part of that information is in map form and so it is pretty much, the protected are in Swan Bay is much the same as it has always been as the Harold Holt Marine Reserves.

John's Comment:
Basically I might be able to help you out a bit Peter, the Marine Park for Swan Bay apart from the Channel that runs from the boat ramp out through the mouth between Duck Island and Edwards Point. The Marine Park is the internal part of Swan Bay and starts just inside Edwards Point and Duck Island and runs a boundary right across to Queenscliff. Would that be right!

Neville's Comment:
Yes well I am looking at it now and you are dead right John.

Caller (Bernie Bliss's) Question:
If these Marine Parks coming in as they are, our friends the commercial fisherman they're exempt from it or are they aloud in there or what?

Neville's Answer:
Bernie in a general sense, all people are unable, no person is able to engage in any taking of exploiting activities. So not even taking rocks and sea weed and aquarium fish, angling, commercial or the whole lot. It's all prohibited with exception there are 4 or 5 Marine National Parks and 1 Sanctuary that have an exemption and up until April 2004.

Caller (Bernie Bliss's) Question:
Now if our friends the commercial fishermen are net near the area and their nets drift in the area are they going to be prosecuted?

Neville's Answer:
Yes, they certainly are. They will face some serious consequences. The penalties are in the order of $6,000 for taking fish from within a Marine National Park or Marine Sanctuary.

Caller (Bernie Bliss's) Question:
Thank you for that Neville. Just one other thing that I will bring to your notice, this is for Geoffrey as well. That I have been trying to find out how close we could anchor to the Refinery Pier. And the law at the moment is 25 meters and they're looking at bringing in 200 meters, but the law is at the moment nobody knew the water police and different people didn't know anything about it. But we have found out this week that it is 25 meters so Geoffrey will be very interested in that.

Geoffrey Wilson's Comment:
Well I was actually because I have been told by the Port Authority when I was actually found to be very close to the pier once. I was told I couldn't be within 600 feet of the pier and if I was caught within 600 feet of the pier again I would be fined. So thank you very much for that Bernie.

Caller (Neville's) Question:
I spoke to you at the Boat Show earlier this year, with regards to Lakers Cutting. And you informed me that it wasn't going to be closed because it was a man made place. The question I had for you was is it considered inland water or open water for the amount of rods that you can use down there?

Neville's Answer:
No, it's included within the boundaries of Swan Bay its Marine Waters.

Caller (Neville's) Question:
It's Marine Waters, so you're allowed to use 4 rods down there.

Neville's Answer:
Yes, that right.

Caller (Mickey Viech's) Question:
Have the Aborigines got the right to fish these areas, it was a question that was asked to me?

Neville's Answer:
Well the Marine National Parks have been implemented with the clear intention not to affect native tidal but in terms of fishing rights by individuals that they are not treated any differently from any of us. Whether it would be in a recreational sense or a commercial sense so there are no exemptions for individual fishing rights.

John's Question:
Parks Victoria are running the show yes or no?

Neville's Answer:
Parks Victoria have a very strong management responsibility so I think it is worth noting at this stage that we have talked about boundaries having been defined there are maps and plenty of information out. And we can tell people in a moment how they go about obtaining that, those details. There has also been major legislation implemented of course and I have referred to some of the penalties that apply. But Parks Victoria have the job a head of them. They have already prepared a management strategy, but they do have the job a head of them over the next 3 years to develop management statements for each park and they will be encouraging community participation and that will involve refinement of local and regional issues. So there is still the debates over, and the discussion at that level is over. The Parks are very much a part of the seen now and they have been implemented so as to protect those valuable marine resources as I mentioned before they are a representative sample but within each park there are regional and local issues that will need to be addressed.

Geoffrey Wilson's Question:
I just have a question for you Neville if you don't mind. Before you spoke about the fines of $6,000 to commercial fisherman who take fish from a Marine Park. Now these plight of fisherman that might be fishing at Queenscliff and accidentally well you know there is quite a strong tide at Queenscliff the tide could take them inadvertently into a marine park, I mean they wouldn't have to do anything the tide would just take them there. And if they were taking fish or squid quite accidentally they would be liable for a $6,000 fine also?

Neville's Answer:
Well as from your experience in the way fisheries officers operated Geoff, there is an opportunity for officer's discretion. There is going to be a huge education campaign mounted so we don't want actually for people to be committing offences. We don't wish to detect that occurring but we will be informing and educating people at all levels and those of the general community who might be completely ignorant and then those who perhaps in the Recreation Fishing Community who may just not know where they are situated. In relation to the Marine National Parks or Marine Sanctuaries and giving as much information across and helping them along the way. Helping them understand the racial for the introduction to the Marine National Parks and helping them know where they are.

Geoffrey Wilson's Question:
Yes but if they were inadvertently taking fish in a Marine Park they could still be fined $6,000 is that right or not?

Neville's Answer:
They could also be have it explained to them that they shouldn't be where they are doing what they are doing.

Geoffrey Wilson's Comment:
Yes, but the tide will take them there they don't have to go there Neville, at Queenscliff the tide would simply take them into the Marine Park There is no intent by the fisher to go into the Marine Park the tide will just take them in. As you know the tide just runs there at Queenscliff and it will just take them into the Marine Park.

Neville's Comment:
Yes but it is not any different to the situation that exists at the moment Geoff. Where if you can find your self in an area that's closed whether it be a Military Zone or whether it be Pugs Eye or a Marine Reserve so that's a situation that could easily happen now. The development of Marine Parks does not alter it.

Geoffrey Wilson's Comment:
I beg to differ, the Squid grounds and the bite at Lonsdale have been traditional Squid fishing grounds for recreational and commercial fisherman. Now there is a line from Clarke's Beacon going out, there will be no boys out on the water. You go across that imaginary line and as I say you don't have to go there with intent the tide will take you there. The ep tide running out of Port Phillip Heads will take you in there. And you are not aloud to anchor out there because the Port Rules 62a forbids you to anchor, so you can't anchor there. And the tide will just take you straight into the Marine Park and you could still carry on catching Squid, you have done nothing to any different to where you started, it is just the tide has taken you in there. Now will you be liable for the $6,000 if the tide takes you into the Marine Park?

Neville's Comment:
Well, I think I have answered it Geoff.

Geoffrey Wilson's Comment:
I don't think so Neville.

Neville's Comment:
There is an opportunity, an terrific opportunity or challenge for us fisheries officers and parks Victoria rangers to ensure that people are adequately and appropriately informed of what their responsibilities are in regard to fishing in proximity to Marine National Parks.

Geoffrey Wilson's Comment:
But they can still be fined $6,000 if they drifted in there.

Scott's Comment:
But if you're drifting in on the tide in a boat wouldn't you be keeping an eye on where you are anyway, as a matter of course whether there was a Marine Park or not.

Geoffrey Wilson's Comment:
Not if you're concentrating on you're fishing, no and there was obscure mark on the beach, which you may not be able to line up. Say you had to line up markers ????? Well I mean that line up could easily line up when you are half way playing a decent fish. What say you have hooked a big Salmon on light gear and you have hooked it somewhere say off Bell Reef, but the tide is going out and you're playing that fish, before you know it your past Clarke's Beacon, your into the Marine Park. WAM! $6,000.

Neville's Comment:
Geoff it is a simple matter that if fishermen are that preoccupied with their fishing in areas in close to areas they shouldn't be then they are just as likely to end up on the Lonsdale Reef so.

Geoffrey Wilson's Comment:
That is incorrect Neville, the Lonsdale Reef is on the other side of the pier.

Neville's Comment:
No, if we take it away from the Marine National Parks scenario and to a safety scenario where you got to be aware at all times if your out in a boat and your in a tide you've got to aware at all times for safety reasons. We'd be educating the fishing public that they need to also be aware they are in with regard to proximity's and Marine National Parks for the same reason that they shouldn't be approaching into an area that they're not entitle to be in.

Geoffrey Wilson's Comment:
Neville, the fishermen that fish Port Phillip Heads are well aware of hazards. The hazards have been there ever since I can remember. Now these Marine Parks are going to be a new hazard for them. You cross over that line, BANG $6,000.

Neville's Comment:
It's not a hazard in the same sense it's a consideration and it really gets back to individual responsibility.

Reporter (Andrew Mostert's) Question:
The biggest question around my area Neville is the fact where do the guys found out the definition areas are for the Marine Parks. There hasn't been much publicised in the way of the media etc. of exactly where these Marine Parks are, and they come into affect this morning as we know and there is still guys asking a lot of question, how do we find out where they are?

Neville's Answer:
Yes, Andrew that is a good question. I haven't seen today's papers but there may be something within the morning's press.

John's Comment:
Apparently the Herald Sun has something today.

Neville's Answer cont'd:
And there will be public notices proclaiming the areas and defining them. But we have already mentioned earlier on air that there are quite extensive Marine notes that give a lot of the background information and the values associated with these new Marine National Parks and Marine Sanctuaries. And also very detailed maps that show the lap longs and also the positioning of the various markers.

Reporter (Andrew Mostert's) Question:
And where can they find these?

Neville's Answer:
There down able to be downloaded from the Parks Victoria website and also the NRE website. John mentioned a link from the FishVictoria.com website and the actual printed copies of them will be available certainly in the Parks Victoria and NRE Offices and a range of other outlets hopefully as time goes on. But they really have only just been distributed yesterday.

Reporter (Andrew Mostert's) Comment:
Excellent, that's good to know and it's a petty they couldn't have been distributed a little be earlier, so, there is a few rather large competitions on this weekend and I sought of got a few questions yesterday. Can we fish Corner Inlet and can we fish this and that? And we sought of looked it up in the book and one of those particular areas, I think it is the Wilson's Prom. Marine National Park doesn't come into affect for a while yet but we had certainly a lot of questions around during the week.

John's Comment:
Yes, the biggest thing there Andrew, is just like we said if they get on to the FishVictoria.com website they will find the links directly there. Otherwise, if they go onto the website and click onto the banner that advertisers the FishVictoria Fishing Show on 94.7 The Pulse and they will find the links all sitting there on our page.

Caller (Barry's) Question:
With these Marine Parks, what other groups are being asked to sacrifice anything for this pristine environment that were protecting. It seems to me the fisherman are the only ones that are asked to give anything up. Divers can go there, we can still dump and as Geoff's lovely song said we can still dump heaps of stuff in the ocean. At the moment we are concentrating on keeping the recreational fisherman out what other things are being done?

Neville's Answer:
Gee, when you say a lovely song it didn't sound that good from where I was sitting maybe you, over the airways it picked up a bit of quality.

Caller (Barry's) Question:
It improved.

John's Comment:
I reckon it's great.

Neville's Answer:
Listen, that was a fair enough question to ask. The development of these Marine National Parks and Marine Sanctuaries wasn't designed to exclude any particular groups. But what it was designed to do what the investigation proved was necessary was to remove all exploitative activities. So all those that where likely to have a human impact and if diving was of any great impact well then that would have been one of the activities excluded but obviously diving and snorkeling is a look don't take activity. Fishing does have an impact and as does mining obviously in the extreme, as does we already talked about it earlier, the removal of aquarium fish or rocks for aquariums. Those sought of activities that might not have a much of an impact in one sought of instance but incrementally and compounded do have a major impact. And it doesn't matter if you are talking about an area that is a Marine Environment with an impoundment or an inbay-ment or one out in the open ocean, they all do have some sought of impact. So the philosophy behind declaring these areas as no take zones is to remove all human impact that might have a detrimental affect.

Caller (Barry's) Question:
Ok, we got the no take but what about the additives section, you know where things get added to the ocean by different groups. Is that going to be addressed, or is that going to be to hard?

Neville's Answer:
Also a great question. Within this management plan in process that will be one of the major consideration processes identifying processes that may have a detrimental impact on our Marine Resources, those within the Marine National Parks and Marine Sanctuaries. So any agricultural run off, storm water inputs, all those sort of things really need to taken care of on the land that have an impact of Marine Resources they will be investigated remedied hopefully within some management planing process.

Caller (Barry's) Comment:
My way of looking at it, and I am only an occasional fisherman, to me it seems the fisherman have been identified as a problem. And we're setting aside areas, but there is an overall problem that doesn't seem to be going to be addressed in. And I drive around the bay a fair bit, not fishing but drive around and I see dirty brown slicks going out into the bay, especially in Corio Bay, and is that too hard. I think we should be protecting the whole environment not just selective little areas and setting them aside and think we are doing the job. I don't think we are doing the job.

Neville's Answer:
And I think you are absolutely right, and there is a good reason to have both strategies. One to deal with the wider environmental issues and then one bio-diversity issues in particularly relevant and important and valuable areas.

John's Question:
Do you know if there is a particular department that people can contact and speak to about that?

Neville's Answer:
Well Natural Resources and Environment has a fair bit of responsibility for many of those things, as does the EPA.

FishVictoria interview with Andrea Chiaradia.

John's Question:
What is it that you do?

Andrea's Answer:
I am a Marine Biologist, I work on Penguins at Phillip Island.

John's Question:
You had an intricate part in deciding the location for the Marine Park near Phillip Island, would we be right in saying that?

Andrea's Answer:
Well in a discussion yes. We have been debating the importance of the Marine Park for little penguins.

John's Question:
As a Marine Biologist what is the big thing that makes the decision for you, is there any certain factors you look for in making that decision?

Andrea's Answer:
Firstly, I didn't make any decisions in anything.

John's Question:
But when you look at though, basically you had to decide yes a Marine Park is needed hear or no Marine Park is not needed.

Andrea's Answer:
Um, so what happens is most of the time the diet of little penguins is based on fish. And when they are feeding their chicks they need certain species. And the fishes stock that the penguins rely on this is being in decline. So one of the ways to preserve the stocks is to establish some areas that are not disturbed. So those areas the food for the penguins can be restored.

John's Question:
The penguins basically eat fish, correct?

Andrea's Answer:
Yes.

John's Question:
But the fish are a migratory species, don't they swim through a Marine Park so they would only be there for a short period of time move on to be munched by a shark or whale or something down the track. So in which way is that going to the preservation of the area going to protect their stocks as in fish?

Andrea's Answer:
Well, that is exactly the need to for network of Marine Parks because if used correctly the penguins they migrate. So if preserve one particular area the fish they move away from the area so you are not doing any good. But if you have a network of areas where the fish can move from one to another and those areas are not disturbed so the chances are you are going to have an impact on the preservation.

Geoffrey Wilson's Question:
Andrea, it's Geoff Wilson here, I am a just a little bit concerned, I believe that the penguins feed on anchovies and pilchards and pelagic fish like that.

Andrea's Answer:
And Red Cods and Barracouta and...

Geoffrey Wilson's Question:
Penguins feed on Barracouta and Red Cod? They must be pretty small aren't they.

Andrea's Answer:
Oh yes, so what happens is the penguins are eating a fish the size that is going to be sold commercially or recreational catch in one or two years time.

Geoffrey Wilson's Question:
Andrea you have checked some of the stomach contents of these little penguins haven't you, they are called little penguins aren't they?

Andrea's Answer:
Yes.

Geoffrey Wilson's Question:
What would be the analyses what would be mainly in their stomach, would it be anchovies and pilchards or would it be Red Cod and Barracouta?

Andrea's Answer:
Well, at the moment it is Red Cod. So I just, this week I just, we do this horrible thing called stomach flushing, so we make the penguins vomit.

John's Comment:
I was just wondering were you put the hose.

Geoffrey Wilson's Question:
Red Cod, we are talking about Pseudaphritis Baccus aren't we.

Andrea's Answer:
Yes.

Geoffrey Wilson's Question:
Right, now all the Red Cod I have caught Andrea have been a foot long or bigger.

Andrea's Answer:
Yeh Yeh. But the ones they eat are smaller.

Geoffrey Wilson's Comment:
They do grow smaller than that.

Andrea's Comment:
Yes, we are talking about 3 - 5 cm each year.

Geoffrey Wilson's Comment:
So the penguins could be having an affect on the Red Cod population.

Andrea's Comment:
Well in one way to put it, the other way to put it is that if you remove the Red Cod you are going to have an impact on the penguins food.

John's Question:
Do you, your personal belief Andrea, do you thing that everybody can share a Marine Park and even in a limited form do you believe everybody should be able to use a Marine Park?

Andrea's Answer:
Of Course, Yes

John's Question:
The penguin parade, the Red Cod when the population is reduced their migratory they move around the coast they disappear, do the penguins disappear as well or do they hang around?

Andrea's Answer:
All the penguins fortunately they can't because they are really faithful to their colony, but what happens is they always sit in the same area. If the fish disappear from that area so the penguins try to catch something else. If something else is not there so then they fail at breading, and the population declines.

Caller (Horst Phiffer's) Question:
I am rather concerned about how much the government listen to their consultants. I have got in front of me, this report from one of the consultants that says; Recreational Fishing should be permitted in Marine Parks. And the other report that has never been taken into consideration. It basically states; the current selection and design of Marine Parks is strongly driven by a reliance on geo physical eco systems so it gets overly simplified use of the pro-cautionary principal demonstrating a level of complacency and unjustified optimism about value of Marine Parks as a management tool. Now the minister's adviser in Queenscliff actually told me that the Marine Parks were not going to be a fish management tool, now if that is the case why are the fisherman going to be excluded, so the whole thing has been rather a bit of a furfer? There has been no consultation, there is no scientific data that backs up any reason to ban people from fishing in those Marine Parks. Now we have a small strip of 3 miles on the shore and we have 200 miles out side that 3-mile limit. And do you honestly believe that this 3-mile limit is going to re-invigorate the fishing industry, when we allow forum fishing vessels in our 200 mile zone, with huge nets that take not 1 to 60 tones of fish in one hit. And we are going to be made to believe that someone standing on the shore at Pt Addis with a little fishing rod and catching a fish once a month is going to have an impact on the environment. I think that the whole thing is rather just to farcical to take serious.

Neville's Question?
Horst can I just ask have you been listening to the show through the morning?

Caller (Horst Phiffer's) Answer:
Not all morning.

Neville's Answer?
We have covered a lot of that. I have talked about incremental affects it is not just the one person fishing from the beach at Pt Addis. That's cause for concern or that's determined that the approach taken by the government in declaring these Marine National Parks that there is in fact some evidence to suggest no fishing zones do have an impact now sometimes it may take some quiet considerable period of time there is a New Zealand for example where a Parks been in place for 20 years and there has been a quiet an outstanding results coming through but you are picking up on your point about the reason for the declaration of these Marine National Parks and Marine Sanctuaries not being in order or driven by a need to improve fish stocks. Your quiet right, that may well be a benefit that derives from the implementation of this integrated set of protected areas. But you are right it has not been the determining or the driving factor behind their declaration.

Caller (Horst Phiffer's) Question:
So why ban the recreational fisherman from the area when you allow fishing just outside the 3-mile limit?

Neville's Answer?
What may accrue is that not only bio-diversity in the Marine National Parks boundaries but also fish abundance may increase, but no one is saying that fish abundance will increase.

Caller (Horst Phiffer's) Question:
That's what they have been promoting all throughout the whole debate prior to this introduction. All the time it would said we can improve and let the fish population increase and we can prove and go back to Bunurong where they had a Marine Park for 15 Years. And when they did a test there about 6 months ago, for 3 days they were fishing there, the department, and they couldn't catch a Snapper and they couldn't catch a Cray fish. Where it used to be an abundance of those and I think the whole thing is just a smoke screen because in the legislation it is already basically being considered. The government will now charge people to access the areas that once used to free.

Geoffrey Wilson's Comment:
Horst, what you have to remember about Bunurong, is presence of recreational and commercial fisherman were removed there were no eyes there so the poaches came in, they cleaned out the abalone, they cleaned out the crayfish as was shone in the last survey conducted in 1999. And when 8 dive sites were surveyed only 1 crayfish was found. The highest proportion of abalone was 160 per 200 square meters so basically that is the reason why Bunurong is not a productive area. Because of the legitimate presence, the eyes guarding the Marine Environment were removed.

Caller (Horst Phiffer's) Comment:
That's right that's very right. And that's what's going to happen.

Neville's Comment:
Actually just before we move off that subject John. It's important to mention that not only does Parks Victoria have very challenging task ahead of them to set up a management regime for these new areas but they have additional staff quiet a number of new park rangers and also regional marine planners. And addition to that NRE has just put on an additional 26 fisheries officers so there is a real commitment to make sure the education phase is very successful. So these people in the next weeks and months to come will be putting in a very big effort to educate and inform people. And if there are people who wish to offend, choose to offend then they will be doubt with in the normal way.


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